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ethics...club...
Who: the ethics club and whoever wants to crash their party
When: whenever in august!
What: just a mingle post for the disasters
Warnings: uhhh...........well there's a bunch of problematic people here probably, so we'll see how this goes. will update.
The "ethics" club isn't really that well furnished so far. So far, there's only a few things -- things that only Josh is able to access, as well as a dart board, a cheap (and faulty) polygraph machine, and a button maker?
Well, the other members will have to make those. But he does have a certain design for it, if someone was interested in ""helping"" him make the pins...
Otherwise, Joshua's probably usually in here, in classroom 2-D, and he won't turn anyone away. He might warn of anyone coming in of their eccentric group, but he doesn't really mind either way.
But there are papers spread around, not that he really wants to do the work of ensuring that his club stays open, but he figures there's no use in just ignoring it. So there's probably going to be some reports to go through on the papers, or something that could be defined as work.
Loosely.
There's a folder on the desk he'd moved next to the door which holds the topic of the month on it for whoever comes into the room:
good and evil: how do you spot the difference? Do those lines truly exist?
He's very interested in what people would say about it.
When: whenever in august!
What: just a mingle post for the disasters
Warnings: uhhh...........well there's a bunch of problematic people here probably, so we'll see how this goes. will update.
The "ethics" club isn't really that well furnished so far. So far, there's only a few things -- things that only Josh is able to access, as well as a dart board, a cheap (and faulty) polygraph machine, and a button maker?
Well, the other members will have to make those. But he does have a certain design for it, if someone was interested in ""helping"" him make the pins...
Otherwise, Joshua's probably usually in here, in classroom 2-D, and he won't turn anyone away. He might warn of anyone coming in of their eccentric group, but he doesn't really mind either way.
But there are papers spread around, not that he really wants to do the work of ensuring that his club stays open, but he figures there's no use in just ignoring it. So there's probably going to be some reports to go through on the papers, or something that could be defined as work.
Loosely.
There's a folder on the desk he'd moved next to the door which holds the topic of the month on it for whoever comes into the room:
good and evil: how do you spot the difference? Do those lines truly exist?
He's very interested in what people would say about it.
no subject
He watches the paper bits flutter to the floor, his smile slowly fading.] A lifeform that I created...
[... that alone seems ridiculous. He creates machines, sure, and he'd even go so far as to call them Nasods, but... to create something truly alive, something that can understand complex concepts and varied perspectives... a living Nasod like Adrian intended...
Add sighs, a small and bitter laugh escaping him. No, he...]
I don't create things. Not like that.
Someone like me... only knows how to cause destruction. Machines that kill, that twist reality, mindlessly loyal servants that obey my every command... those are the only machines I know how to make.
[Something like that could never be an "ultimate lifeform"... it's barely even a "lifeform". Just a weapon that obeys his will. No matter how hard he tried, he could never get Dynamo to answer him again.
He folds his arms loosely. It's fine. Why create life when he'll just reset it all anyway?]
... besides, I'm more interested in Nasods that evolve on their own. Direct input would skew results.
no subject
Is that so... for someone so committed to machines, the way that they're created... wanting to understand every wire and screw behind their creation... the data that gave life to their programming... No matter what they do, it's a type of hope all made by you, because...
( is he allowed to say add is kind to machines instead? when he saw komaeda's arm, his interest stayed there more than his human body. it didn't matter to him, he doesn't care about himself to even allow that to be a problem to him. his mechanical hand raises, looking into the palm that has no lifeline, no nothing to make it... like his normal one. instead, it's a splash of black and white, a healthy mix of despair and hope to keep his mind turning... he's not human at all, anyway. )
What was I saying... ah, right, with your creations, that means the Nasods that grow can learn good and evil on their own, in a way... you shape them too, Add-kun.
no subject
(as if Add is in a position to judge, but those are his ramblings and thus have more value, obviously)]
... Mindless machines aren't designed to grow. They're not designed to pass judgment or form opinions. You could say that... to those creations, my will is the "ultimate good", and everything that opposes me is the "ultimate evil". But those are only the absolutes of a machine following instructions. One and zero.
Absolute obedience is only a reflection of my own will... I don't consider that "growth". Just a hand moving pieces on a chessboard.
no subject
( we're getting somewhere, and the other will be able to answer the question easily if josh happens to pester him soon. a question like this is so tedious to answer, in order to break it down, they'd have to pull aspects apart, see at the root of it, and as things go for add — he has to create every robot, he has to signify what is good, and what is evil. )
Add-kun, you mentioned that... you killed yourself over, and over, and over when you descended down the elevator... does that mean that, if a person tried to kill them would also be "ultimate good"?
( his eyes light up, even using this word excites him, but it's not something he can label so empty, as he has an attachment to it ) Would your creations destroy them too, or could they not tell the difference...!? What sort of hope would come from it?
no subject
Add sighs, scowling.]
Don't be ridiculous. Imagine if I programmed one of my own creations to act independently and target a version of myself as an enemy... the security risks would be massive. Correctly discerning two of the same person from separate realities isn't so simple. It's already risky enough to travel to dimensions where versions of myself at my current level of intellect exist... [it's kinda why he prefers to nip timelines in the bud, when he's still young and innocent, rather than going after timelines where he's a fully-fledged Nasod scientist. even a version of Add in his teens is still a potential threat, if he were to crack his own dynamo's security and hijack their controls. he made an except for the elevators since he had the element of surprise...]
As I already explained... my machines obey my commands. That's all I need of them. Whether those commands are good or evil are irrelevant to the machine performing the action. They're programmed to obey, simple as that.
... You've asked enough questions. [Add's turn.] Instead, I want to know... when I killed those copies of myself, you said something that annoyed me.
What do you... think of those actions? You compared it to testing "hope"... what hope do think something like me would have?
[there's... a pensiveness to his words, this time. hesitance. like it's a question he doesn't want to ask, but one that he can't just leave alone. he has to know what Komaeda meant.]
no subject
it's hard to part from what he thinks add enjoys at first, the way his creations don't follow the concept of good or evil as long as the action is performed, but his views come from that, don't they? he doesn't seem like the type to follow orders from another person, especially if they aren't worthy of his time and respected — there couldn't be someone above since the machines went by add's will. )
...
( for someone like komaeda, he hears that a lot from others, that he does annoying things, says them as well &mash; it's the norm, and he watches add eagerly to hear what he's done this time. he remembers the meeting, and he blink slow. he listens to how people speak, that's how he catches what he needs to address, and what he wants to ignore — "something like me" catches his attention first, and he tries to think back to what he said before. )
That was when you called me weird, right? Oh, sorry, sorry... you said enough questions. ( he'll place a hand on his hip, thoughtful, he said something about add's hope, about how killing them erased his "failures," despite he called them that instead. ) ...Who knows you better than yourself, all your victories, and all your failures... constantly challenging yourself, if they didn't prove to be a threat, why would you go out of your way to do that... but such actions can also reflect that you're terrified of yourself, of what you can do... I wonder if they thought the same.
( but add had something that they didn't: the elevator, a way to surprise them that they didn't see coming. )
How I see it... too many people are afraid of themselves, they can't accept their own faults, but isn't it wonderful that you can face yourself and decide based upon your own deductions and how much you value yourself? You can only protect yourself, only you can judge your own actions personally... everyone else distributes labels, but there's something admirable in the way you face your actions head on...
( he looks up, contemplating his thoughts that seem to roughly go everywhere, but there's a lot he can say for how add handled his business, but komeda doesn't hate him for it at all, instead, he smiles like this is something familiar. ) There's hope that you give them too, the chance to fight back, to see if you're worth it in their eyes... how they're able to view you, realize the amount of effort you put in, die realizing that... if you being the fruits of their labor exists, then you can become their hope... carry on as is. At first... I thought your hope was science, but it stems deeper... it all comes back to you... ahaha... you could have destroyed everything they made, but you chose them...
no subject
He listens, as attentive as he's ever been, though he's quick to look away and find a fascinating corner to stare at after you're terrified of yourself, of what you can do.
is it wonderful, that he can face himself like this? or... is it because he's afraid of what it would mean if he didn't? forcing himself to act, because inaction is the same as admitting he was wrong.
...]
Destroying their efforts wouldn't be the point, and... as if I'd give them a chance to fight back. My work isn't so sloppy.
... it's a reminder. A test of... my resolve, if anything. But it's not the same as having "hope".
[a reminder, so doesn't forget that as long as he exists, if he ever gives up or loses focus... it'll mean the death of every moment of happiness he's ever had. only when every trace of his existence across every drop of time has been erased, that's when he'll be able to start over. that's the only "hope" a devil like him could ask for.
"hope" is what they had, choosing to stay. all he did was prove that hope was beyond his reach, all of their reach.
he sighs, shoulders slumping, eyeing the door.]
You're... wasting your time with me. I don't have what you're looking for, so...
no subject
Resolve is the same as hope, why wouldn't it be? To keep going, to face the dangers before you not knowing what could come from your actions... the fact that you know what you're doing unlike some who don't... As long as you have resolve, you're above becoming blindsided... you know what it is that you want, and like I said... you're admirable on that front.
( "you're... wasting your time with me. i don't have what you're looking for, so..." sounds so sad, yet, komaeda watching as add's shoulder slump, the way his gaze looks towards the door, and the ultimate moves, blocking his path like the annoying little insect that he is. )
...Courage comes from understanding a person, which opens a path to the foundation of their hope. You don't talk a lot about yourself, Add-kun, and I can understand why... admitting yourself is like a weakness here, but...
( he hums in thought, and he rubs his chin. should he have not said what he did? or does komaeda not care as long as his words get out there — it may have been a hard truth, but he doesn't mean anything by it. )
When I spoke to you that day, I said... you were testing your own hope, everyone has different ones... some are the people here, and others is the goals that they make for themselves, but for you... it' what drives you... and that drive you apply to yourself much better than others... it's why I can't turn myself away from you, to have a hope like that... I'm interested in where it'll take you, because this path is one you've paved for yourself, but I'll anything to see it through! Ahaha, so don't give up on yourself... that's what resolve is all about, right? That sort of hope... as long as you stand before me, I know it's always there.
no subject
[firmly, with the faintest hint of anger, frustration... it's not the same. not to him.
Komaeda blocks his path so instead he tears his eyes away, glaring now at the floor like it's personally offended him. he acts like he knows, but he doesn't. he's not understanding anything Add is trying to say. why does he think everyone has to fit into his childish perception of "hope"?]
Tell me, Nagito. What is hope for? Why do people have it? Why do they bother?
[but whatever Komaeda thinks, it doesn't matter—Add already has an answer of his own, and despite it being posed as a question, he's just going to go ahead and give that answer himself. he looks up from the floor, meeting the other's eyes once more but now with both eyes flooded black.]
Hope is to want for something, to believe in something... kekek, but that something that can only exist in the future. So a devil that exists outside of time can never have your hope, no matter how hard he tries. All I can do is ensure my own destruction is complete.
Resolve to erase the mistake that created my existence. If you still consider that "hope", well, we can agree to disagree.
no subject
komaeda's eyes sharpen, he's more observant as he watches the other, the change in his eyes, the confidence he holds when saying everything. and then... )
Do people live for hope, Grenore-kun?
( has komaeda gave off that impression of living when it comes to hope, he doesn't even have hope... his talent is mediocre, and he's practically trash that's blown here and there by the breeze before him. his own life matters not, because hope can go on without him, he's only helping those who seem to have walked off course — those who need a push in the right direction, or can't jump over the hurdle properly without take ten steps back, and eleven steps forward to remind themselves to jump. )
Hope is absolute good... it's worth more than anything else. An all-powerful source that's meant to be worshiped and adored. It's capable of consuming what's inferior and leave no trace, because its power is unparalleled.... All actions are pure and guiltless if they are in the name of hope. Without it there is nothing worth living for. ( he sighs, wheezing every so often as he tries to catch his breath — but his voice is low as he tries to keep this straight to the point. ) People have it because hope is as infectious as despair wishes it could be. Even when it seems like hope is lost, it'll always return and prevail... they have it because hope is what rules the world, and even should one wish for it to not exist, ( he pauses, allowing the obvious to sink in as he watches add with a trained look, noting the rhythm of his breathing, the moment he'll blink, ) it will always be present.
( hope is such a sensitive thing to komaeda, and he understands that this is add's way in rejecting it time and time again, whether he's afraid of it, or because of his need to kill every piece of himself so that he's the only one left, so that he can successfully kill himself, there's hope to be found in that as well. it's him going through hell and back, it's him who has to face the consequences when it comes to killing those versions of himself — if he didn't want memories of himself to last, why does he make friends with those here, humor them? it'll be lasting, he's doing the opposite. )
Why do they bother? Ahaha... hope is something that permeates the mind. Even should one think that there's none, it is always there, always present, and always able to offer its light and strength! ...And for those that embrace it, it gives them the strength to overcome the bleakest despair, isn't that hope that you have... trying to kill every version of yourself, if you didn't believe you were capable... you wouldn't do it... but I won't praise it as a hopeless suicide, because even along the way... you've made bonds with those that help them, and yourself... if you want to protect the world from yourself, protect yourself from what the world offers... I won't frown on that hope, I'll continue seeing it as one if you won't... you'll learn one day.
no subject
his grip on himself tightens sharply with each word, the subtle sound of hairline cracks forming beneath his clothes. he looks away again—he's heard enough. he shuts it out like he always does, the words that bite and claw at walls he's built around his heart.]
Absolute good, absolute power... tch, do you want to know what hope really is? It's just another lie humans use to trick themselves. You have one moment of good fortune, so you fool yourself into believing it means something, that the losses in your life are only trials to overcome...
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. That's all you are. A pathetic, stupid, miserably weak little man, incapable of doing anything worthwhile with your pitifully short time in this reality. Why do you even bother to wake up in the morning?
This conversation was a waste of my time. Don't bother me about it again. [don't speak to me again is almost what leaves his mouth next, but instead he hisses a sharp sigh and shoves his way past Komaeda
he's leaving, now, whether Komaeda wants to stand in his way or not. and he will resist if the other tries to stop him, a perceptible emotion that makes him arms shake, rage and hatred and something more terrifying than both that shivers under his fragile surface]
no subject
he thinks about it, and add doesn't have to tell komaeda what he already knows — he's pathetic, he's stupid, he is a miserably weak little man that's incapable of doing anything worthwhile with his pitifully short time in this reality, and in the one before. he's dying. his thoughts are decaying, and even his body weakens as time goes on — he's trapped in a never-ending suffering thanks to his hope, and if he could admit to himself that he would want to die to be freed from both his talent and hope, he would. but that's not the true him, the real him would never think that way, the young boy within the simulation who forsake hope for the happiness of others doesn't exist, and the komaeda that exists now will do everything in his power to find add's hope, make him understand, make it tangible so the other can put his hands on it.
he doesn't move, instead allowing the other to take his last and final steps, to allow the other to walk past him, but that doesn't stop komaeda from catching a piece of the male's sleeve, who knows if he catches add shaking or not, but he d. a wrong move, and komaeda doesn't mind if something bad comes from it, because there'll be a fortunate outcome for him, or perhaps add if he wills it. )
Is it that hopeless you see nothing from it... even after all that you do for others in helping their hope, do you wish to remain on the opposite side of everything they are? ( is he sad for add? does he pity him? or does it feel so familiar that he toys around with the idea, walking close to the other to use his mechanical hand (because he knows that add has a preference to the non human), and he places it over the male's eyes to block his vision so that he's enclosed in darkness. )
How long has it been since you've allowed the light to lead your path... ( a sigh ) how long has the darkness wrapped around you?
cw: this some ptsd shit right here yeah
but then the other hand reaches out from behind and tries to touch his face. that part, definitely, was a mistake.]
Don't touch me. [low and guttural, swatting away the touch as he ducks away to dodge it, fear, panic, his other hand gripping for the choker around his neck] Don't touch me, keep your filthy hands away, don't touch me—
[whatever lingering doubts he might've held are already long, long gone, and he tears himself away once more—even if he literally has to tear his sleeve to pull free, even if Komaeda reaches for his arm and grasps at the glass-like fragments that shatter into dust in his hands, Add would rather suffer those consequences than stay in this room for even a second longer, than let Komaeda get to him, than let him see his fear and his weakness and his shame
he bolts from the room, and he doesn't even bother to spitefully slam the door behind him
...
(whenever Komaeda finds him next... it's convenient, how no matter how long he spends in the void, time never passes and he'll always be alone. so it's like nothing ever happened. like it's been years since they last spoke and the memory is long gone, buried just like everything else...)]